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Why don't you PvP?

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Aug 04, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27	#121
Sli Ander Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deep in Maguuma, by the Falls Guild: Liberators of Agony Profession: Mo/R	Here is my Grand Opinion. PvP and Pve both have the same number of jerks, Pve might even have a few more. Odds are they might be the same people. The difference between the two? Pvp is a lot more concentrated. Theres HoH and all those arenas which have a set number of districts. If you want to do Halls, theres only so many districts you can run to. Pve has 2WHOLE CONTINENTS, which allows you to go wherever you want to get away from jerks. If you can't escape them in cities, you can always go exploring. I think this is partially where people are getting the whole "pvp is full of jerks, no pve is!" argument from.

Aug 04, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59	#122
Vahn Roi Forge Runner Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: [HiDE]	I don't PvP at the moment, but that's not to say I wouldn't like to start. I just haven't find the time or circumstances for it yet. Not many teams are willing to help out a new PvPer and teach them the ropes. Hooray for Guildies.

Old

Aug 04, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

#123

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: In Baltar's head

Guild: Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Profession: Mo/

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

As an avid PvPer I have similar interests when it comes to PvE. Unfortunately GW and other MMORPGs (haven't found one yet) don't have any of those things.

I respect your opinion, but I think you're reading a bit too much into it. We're playing an online game, whether GW or some other title, so there are limitations to be expected and my preferences you quoted as to why I dont PvP are with that in mind, but I'll reply a bit below to your points - not specifically to disagree with you, because I agree with you in essence - just not in an online context.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

Character development from what I've seen in MMOs is leveling and gaining stat points, and if you consider that to be character development, well you've been playing MMOs for far too long.

Levelling, gaining stats, collecting upgraded armor and weapons that are actually an improvement (not simply different skins), special items that may only be available at high level or through some unusual accomplishment, unlocking an advanced job class or new branch of character ability etc, yes, that IS what I am calling character development in this case, since we are talking about MMOs. Guild Wars frankly has only a little of this, but PvP obviously none, hence my disinterest there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

Exploration usually consists of travelling from room_1a with mobs_2g to room_1b with mobs_2h. With some nice eye candy along the way, and thats really about it. In other words, extremely linear and/or limited. Interestingly enough, I found the MMO that really encouraged exploration was old UO.

Your point here is, what exactly? There's none of this in PvP. There's beautiful landscape to be found in GW PvE, though granted many of my favorite spots I found while running, not playing lol. Still, going over and over the same ground with slight variations against one team and then another is the PvP fare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

Cooperative play in PvE, is often extremely shallow, pull, tank, heal, nuke with some mezzing (enchanter, shaman, mesmer, debuff_class01 take your pick) thrown in. And in GW in particular, its C + Spacebar.

There's a bit more in a decent guild, as well as unusual co-op patterns in random PUGs to make them victorious lol, but yes, a fine-tuned PvP group/guild is going to have a higher degree of co-op play than most co-op play in GW. True even to some degree when speaking of the larger realm of the MMO landscape.

However, I may have used the term a bit too loosely for the point I was trying to make there. Some of my greatest moments online have been with friends or strangers from Japan (in a game I'm happy to leave unnamed as we are on GWG) overcoming language barriers and levels sometimes a bit too low to nonetheless work our way through a tough level etc. All the time chatting and joking and having a grand time. PvP is very business oriented, confrontational, and most of the chat isnt as friendly as conversations I had even at M:tG tourneys. Its the anonymous nature of the internet playing into that I know, but I have had by and large a great deal more enjoyable group experiences in PvE. All I meant.

I got bored of the actual PvE gameplay etc months ago and became a runner for quite some time. Gameplay there was entertaining and allowed me to visit with quite a large group of random people I met in the process. Probably the most fun I have had in GW looking back on everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

I often find the largest population of friendly players in PvE to be among the lowest levels, which ironically enough, often has the largest population of less-than friendly people. The higher you go, the larger the egos. Until you reach the frontier with the raiding guilds where the ego is so thick you can stab your swordofuber_01 with it. GW ameliorates this a great deal by not having any form of raid dynamics whatsoever, which I am somewhat great for. But I still see people lambasting others for not having 15k or FoW armor or some zodiac whatnot. Not to say that PvP doesn't have its fair share of folks with large egos (and the oh so wonderful edrama that comes with it) but really its everywhere.

I agree with you 100%. The experience varies and friendly players can be found in PvP as easily as in PvE, as well as unfriendly and worse. The nicest people I met (in addition to my guild members - you all know who you are) actually were PvP players needing to get to certain locations when I was primarily a runner. Some of them have remained my closest friends in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

Sense of accomplishment... meh. This is where I start to disagree, I get a sense of accomplshment from, well accomplishing something. Rather than C + Spacebar for several hundred hours on end.

I thought you were disagreeing already lol (friendly joking, you sound cool to me so like I say, dont take my replies here as confrontational in any way). I agree on this point. GW end game let me down a bit since PvE-wise there isnt anything to it imho. That's why months ago I stopped really doing much of anything in PvE and simply ran. Sometimes challenging gameplay and goal to be efficient and very competent in certain areas was actually more fun for me than the game itself. Go figure. I had SOME fun with the GW gameplay PvE fighting for a while, but it did get dull for me.

I do expect PvP on this point, like running was for me, to offer some variation and higher interest when the other aspects of PvE wear off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

And "story if applicable", well thats where I really disagree, story, lore and the environment, is what is most important to me. Lest you have a shallow world that is more akin to a glorified chatroom with a really dull minigame attached to it. Oh wait thats what most MMOs are.

Yes. ^^ They are. Most of them anyway. PvP for me doesnt have a goal and is sort of roughly analagous to a FPS (to me). The PvE aspect of MMOs at least does have progress of some sort for me and can sometimes have a really loose story, but exactly as you say, its usually too loose and runs out, and becomes a chat room with your friends while you collect things and develop your character. Guess I'd rather do that than do PvP over and over. *shrugs* I have a lot of respect for PvP players, its just try as i might I cant really get myself into PvP internet play, much as I have done my fair share IRL in other gaming and sports.

Last edited by Aera Lure; Aug 04, 2006 at 09:07 PM // 21:07..

Aera Lure is offline

Aug 04, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12	#124
Ghull Ka Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Guild: Grenths Helpdesk Profession: N/	Because I'm at work. By the way, I'm more or less a giant PvE carebear, but I get a kick out of PvP from time to time. For what it's worth, let me clarify this for the PvP fans who like to pigeonhole: People who do not enjoy PvP and prefer PvE are not scrubs. People who do enjoy PvP and complain about losing to FotM's or rank elitism are scrubs. A scrub, by definition, is someone who likes to PvP. Lots of people who respond to this post simply do not enjoy/care for/appreciate PvP, therefore they're not scrubs. They're carebears. :-) (at least, that's how I read it)

Aug 04, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20	#125
Age Hall Hero Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California Canada/BC Guild: STG Administrator Profession: Mo/	I use to PvP but not much anymore although I do keep a PvP char ready .My Guild is not active and big enough to PvP and my 1st officer is not really into PvP and I respect that.There maybe a day when I will go back to it when my Guild is bigger and more active or if I and my 1st officer go over to a different guild that would be hard though.

Aug 04, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25	#126
Clone Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2006	Lots of reasons... General poor sportsmanship on the part of the people there. People calling others noob and other types of rude behavior far more often than I've seen it in PvE. Rank elitism, and even more inane cookie cutter builds to farm for that rank. It gets way too repetitive. Team A moves 1/3 out of their base. Team B moves 1/3 out of their base. Both wait for a few minutes for the other to move first. While the maps may have different themes, they all follow very similar layouts and get old rather quickly.

Aug 04, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55	#127
BhaalSpawn Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada Guild: N/A and proud of it! Profession: N/Mo	LOL You think pvp is full of e-rage and player bashing. HA! What I've read durring this thread FAR out weighs the the insults I've seen in ANY pvp match. If you people who think pvp is made up entirely of player bashing 8-year olds are the best pve has to offer then I'll stick with my player bashing 8-year olds and play pvp and leave you to you insults. As to that whole HA thing, If my level 19 mm showed up to tombs without Flesh Golem do you think I could find a group to take me... not a chance. same goes for pvp. You people make me sick.(I apologize most profusely to any this may offend for I normally don't take such things so seriously)

Old

Aug 04, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

#128

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Honolulu

Guild: International District [id多]

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Because I'm at work.

By the way, I'm more or less a giant PvE carebear, but I get a kick out of PvP from time to time. For what it's worth, let me clarify this for the PvP fans who like to pigeonhole:

People who do not enjoy PvP and prefer PvE are not scrubs.
People who do enjoy PvP and complain about losing to FotM's or rank elitism are scrubs.

A scrub, by definition, is someone who likes to PvP. Lots of people who respond to this post simply do not enjoy/care for/appreciate PvP, therefore they're not scrubs.

They're carebears. :-)

(at least, that's how I read it)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carebear
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrub_%28gaming%29

People who PvE exclusively and look down on the PvP part of the community are carebears. Many of them also happen to be scrubs.
People who don't run FotMs, lose in PvP, then whine about it, are scrubs.
People who may or may not run FotMs, but win, are not scrubs.

(at least, that's how I read it)

lemming is offline

Aug 04, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58	#129
makosi Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: "Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff. Guild: Requirement Begins With R [notQ] Profession: Me/	Because I can't find 7 other people with enough brain cells. Simple as that. PvP is obviously highly competitive and requires good co-ordination and determination to succeed but most people lack that. I guess a lot of people with high rank/ladder position are lucky to an extent because they have found a group of people with the willingness and 'want' to do it. I'm off the UW to be a carebear.

Old

Aug 04, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

#130

led-zep

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhaalSpawn

LOL

If you people who think pvp is made up entirely of player bashing 8-year olds are the best pve has to offer then I'll stick with my player bashing 8-year olds and play pvp and leave you to you insults.

You people make me sick.(I apologize most profusely to any this may offend for I normally don't take such things so seriously)

glad to hear i wont have to pve with the likes of you, please do stick to your elitist pvp with your own special brand of bad attitude and leave the real GAME to those of is who dont want a whining temper tantrum on legs spoiling our mission.

led-zep is offline

Old

Aug 04, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

#131

Rent

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Guild: Darkness Within

Profession: Mo/Me

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by led-zep

glad to hear i wont have to pve with the likes of you, please do stick to your elitist pvp with your own special brand of bad attitude and leave the real GAME to those of is who dont want a whining temper tantrum on legs spoiling our mission.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that PvE is free of whiny children. Are we playing different games?

Rent is offline

Old

Aug 04, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

#132

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Profession: W/Mo

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by led-zep

glad to hear i wont have to pve with the likes of you, please do stick to your elitist pvp with your own special brand of bad attitude and leave the real GAME to those of is who dont want a whining temper tantrum on legs spoiling our mission.

I do believe I can sum up my response to this post in 5 letters..

L-M-F-A-O.

Because clearly no one in PvE is elitist.Easpecially the fact that groups completely steer away from other classes say Assassins for the simple fact that they don't fit in your "UBER L337 COOKIECUTTER BUILD".

Theus is offline

Aug 04, 2006, 11:34 PM // 23:34	#133
Gigashadow Jungle Guide Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bellevue, WA Profession: W/	Actually people avoid assassins in pve because most of them are terrible.

Aug 04, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39	#134
Tarun Technician's Corner Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The TARDIS Guild: http://www.lunarsoft.net/ http://forums.lunarsoft.net/	My two main reasons are... It's not real PvP. You get an instant cookie cutter character that you can remake in five minutes. Real PvP is joined with PvE where you earn everything. It takes no skill and has no real challenge. Games like Counter-Strike take real skill.

Old

Aug 05, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

#135

latbec

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Canada

Guild: Slayers N Scholars [SaS]

Profession: Mo/

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

My two main reasons are...

It's not real PvP. You get an instant cookie cutter character that you can remake in five minutes. Real PvP is joined with PvE where you earn everything.
It takes no skill and has no real challenge. Games like Counter-Strike take real skill.

PvP in guild wars is about team cohesion. Choosing 64 skills for your 8-men team and having them work in total cohesion. This is real PvP and it requires skill to do that. There are no places for loners in GW and that's why people like you and others are frustrated. People who obstinately refuse the concept of teamwork will never succeed at PvP in GW.

latbec is offline

Old

Aug 05, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

#136

BhaalSpawn

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Canada

Guild: N/A and proud of it!

Profession: N/Mo

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by led-zep

glad to hear i wont have to pve with the likes of you, please do stick to your elitist pvp with your own special brand of bad attitude and leave the real GAME to those of is who dont want a whining temper tantrum on legs spoiling our mission.

Thank you for pointing out that my post was completely uncalled for, and again I apologize.
As stated earlier I play both pvp and pve to an equal extent and that will not change.
I was prompted to post that outragious and hateful remark upon seeing such a vast majority (pve) bashing the minority(pvp) in class they themselves admit to only trying once, twice or never.
I would however post that same remark again if the pvp decided to morally attack pve (such is the problem of sitting on the fence).
More over I believe this thread is titled "why don't you pvp" not "bash pvp here".
Thank you most kindly for reading this retraction or rather clarification.
Feal free to flame me all you want, just don't simply attack pvp because you don't like it or understand it.
Once more I aologize to any who may find that post offencive.

BhaalSpawn is offline

Aug 05, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05	#137
reetkever Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Dec 2005 Profession: Mo/E	I don't PvP because it's not rewarding enough. I don't get gold, no rare weapons etc, my characters won't get better. The only thing I can do is unlock stuff so that I can PvP even more... Also, it's not challenging enough in my opinion - you make a character that is level 20 already, and with some luck (most builds are the same anyway) and a bit of teamwork you win (what do you win? Some faction, yay!). PvE requires you to become stronger, find the weapon, craft the armor, get further in the game etcetera.

Old

Aug 05, 2006, 12:10 AM // 00:10

#138

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Profession: W/Mo

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

My two main reasons are...

It's not real PvP. You get an instant cookie cutter character that you can remake in five minutes. Real PvP is joined with PvE where you earn everything.
It takes no skill and has no real challenge. Games like Counter-Strike take real skill.

Wow.Are you saying it takes more skill to kill an AI that doesnt react AT ALL to what you actually do,than the Intelligence of another human?

While were in opposite land,I'll have to say, You're not a retard!

Theus is offline

Aug 05, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11	#139
The Herbalizer <3 Ecto Join Date: Jul 2005	I dont like rage quiters I dont like people who speak in caps lock I dont like people who rush and say things like gogogogogogogo I dont like the builds they run as I find them boring i.e. iway and vimway. I dont like pvp noobs who trash talk i.e. OMG!!!!!!!! Runner noob. Me: Er ever heard of kiting??? OMG its noob as i cant kill you!!! Pvpers can be way too competitive and even rage at their own guildies. I can avoid most of this by playing pve with henchmen, guildies and friends. Pvp in guild wars just isnt for me.

Old

Aug 05, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

#140

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

....
People who don't run FotMs, lose in PvP, then whine about it, are scrubs.

yea, there are no "iway scrubs". people who are/were using that phrase are/were scrubs.

tomcruisejr is offline

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